Category: Let's talk
This just came to my mind, my view is I figure if you can have sex with the person then you can deliver the child and if you don't want it then give it up for adoption, but I wouldn't kill the child before it had a chance to experience life.n
I agree with them for health reasons either that of the child or mother..but the father should also be involved in the decision..if the woman has been raped then she is entitled to abort the child..abortion is a fact of life and if a child has to be aborted then it's vital stem cells should be harvested they may save many lives one day...
dam, how many times is this topic goin to be posted. Getting a little old. no offense to the poster! smile- angel
I don't care either way, if someone wants to have one fine, if not fine.
I'm not for it, personally, but I'm certainly not going to belittle anyone who's had one.
I'm not for it either, but won't condemn or think badly of anyone who is for it.
Leilani
I think it's up to the two people involved. I'm not personally against it; it all depends on the situation.
Tipical situations and my opinions, you had sex of your own free will, or when you got drunk on your own, you should have the kid. You were raped if you chose to abort that's fine. If you know the kids going to have problems that has to be your own call, while I wouldn't want a blind fetus to be aborted, I personally would want a fedus to be aborted that was going to die in great pain by the age of three and I wouldn't want a crack baby, but that's a parrents call. Stem cell research should not be done on fetuses as it leads down a slope where the fedus becomes far to valuable and important, and could be worth more aborted then as a human being in some peoples eyes.
I personally don't care either way. Why should I waste my time and energy getting all upset and morally outraged over the choices strangers and hypothetical people make? You did the deed and depending on your luck or fate or random chance or whatever you believe in, there will be good or bad consequences.
They should be allowed because there are always cases in which women are pregnant due to being raped and they don#t want the child. But I would not always allow abortion only because the woman didn't see the need in taking the pill or the couple using a condom and suddenly she realizes "oops I'm pregnant" and runs for abortion. That is not right.
Insele I agree there is an epidemic of this in britain, among career women who suddenly find themselves pregnant then wonder eh how the hell did that happen?.....
Brice you could do with being less self righteous nothing is ever so clear cut...
Yeah Goblin that's what I mean.
I'm not going to say I'm for or against it, but I do believe people have the right to make that decision for themselves.
No problem pal ..smile.
I think it should be allowed if there's a real reason for it. I stick to my opinion. Not everyone should be allowed to just because they suddenly realize "oops I can't keep my baby". For those there is still adoption.
Personally, I am not against abortion, but I also don't think that it should be the number one option. Secondly, it is the woman having labor and even though the man helped in creating that baby, he is not the one giving birth to it, and not the one going through the pain to have it, therefore, I don't think a man has the final say in whether or not she should have the baby or not. With that being said, that doesn't mean women should just start aborting every baby they don't want either.
Jessmonsilva I totally agree.
Abortion has fallen victim to the disposable trend that is all pervasive in a fast paced world ..the career women I mentioned are under constant pressure from deadlines ect and they simply do not have the time to commit to a child..but surely they have the common sense to use some form of contraception..
Contraception is never 100%, and that is the risk a woman and man takes when they lay down together. As far as the man having or not having a say...I think they should. If (1) the woman wasn't raped; as things currently stand a man who rapes a woman has the right to be a father to the child; (in this country), but that's a different topic. (2) They want to take the responsibility if the woman wants to give it up they will take it, they help out with financial needs...medical bills. After all, in this country a state will persue a man for child support, so, why shouldn't he have a say in its life? It's actually quite interesting, we make the men pay financially if "we" (women) wants to have it, but if a woman wants to rid herself of the child he has no say? Doesn't make logical since to me. Nextly, I must add that I will not abort a child unless my life is seriously at risk. I do not believe in abortion, but I do not judge a person who has had one. Judgement is not my place, and no I'm not religious just believe that I should never judge a person; no matter what, and I have to also add; nothing is black and white, there are, (according to the information I just worked on for a program) 99 shades of gray.
this doesn't really ask much about relationships, it asks opinions in general. So, I moved it to "Let's talk" for lack of a better place.
I'm not for or against abortion. If here comes a day when I'll make the decision then I will. As for the career women in Britain whojust abort becauce they can, well that's just not right. As for the whole financial support for having a kid versus not having a sayif the childis aborted, it's totally the woman's right to choose, because she ends up feeding, changing, doing all th thins let's face it, nice as some of you menare, you don't have the breasts well meaning as I'm sure you guys would be. and that's not sarcasm.
I understand that women want to have a carreer. But then they shall give children to adoption and not ... kill them. For me, it is killing and it should only be permitted for very few exceptions.
madam vel with all do respect go fuck your self. If I were to get a girl pregnant I should damn well have a say in weather the kid gets kept or not, single fathers can get the job done even if the mother doesn't want to be involved, and there's something called a bottle, I don't need brests.
I do think that both partners have to decide. And if they decide for the baby, then the father should help the mother to change and stuff like that. We are not in the 16. century that the woman has to do all that and the guy goes to work and to the pub afterwards. I know that sounded very feministic but this is my opinion.
It should be the decision of the person carrying the baby whether or not they want the abbortion. Nobody should try making that decision for the woman and her decision should be accepted. People who are against what I've just said are obviously against freedom and so shouldn't be allowed any freedom. Doctors should only be allowed to make the womans decision for her, if the doctor is 99% certain that the child will never be able to grow up to live a self-sufficient life. In cases where the person is going to have the mentality of a baby or young child for its entire life, and so is never going to be able to contribute to society, then the child should obviously be abborted, because it's in the best interests of society that it is, just like it's in the best interests of society that we lock all rapists up for example.
So even if the child was yours, and the woman decided she didn't want it you'd be willing to let her abort the fetus even though that child is just as much yours as hers, do to the fact that you gave genetic meterial to help create it. It takes two to tango, so two should have a say in what happens. I am for freedom, sorry to see your a closed minded person who in spite of being a man, doesn't give a damn about our rights. As for your 99% comment, that should be the decision of the parrents, some people would say because your blind that you wouldn't be able to live a normal life and should be aborted. It's all relative, some mentally handicapt people are able to live lives that at least for them are full and good, based on what there capable of doing. There are also those who can live a full live, and instead become homeless vagabonds, it sure as hell shouldn't be some doctors call as weather to abort the featus. If we take your opinion to it's logical conclusion then we will reinstate ugenics to allow the human race to become pure, and people such as you and I will be castrated so that blindness isn't able to be caused by genetic means ever again. In conclusion The Waynderful Wangel your a dumbass, and should have been aborted, thank you for listening.
Hold on just one second blindguy. i never said that you men are uncaring bastards, who should have no say in that. What i said was, in a case where the woman wants to, she has the right to abort whetehr the father agrees with her decision or not. I also agree that ww's comments are horrid in aborting a child if it can't live a normal life. But, I'd rather piss off a gy and abort, if that's my choice then raise a child in a horrible environment where if their parents aren't together they're doing nothing but fighting, and plus let's not even go to the financial part of things.
In that case the father should have the right to make the woman abort since after all it's half of his genetic meterial, and if he doesn't want his jeans to be spread they shouldn't be.
Of course the woman should decide but she should talk with the father about it and see if there is no better solution (adoption) or if the father (which is of course very rare) raises the baby.
The woman carrys the baby and she shouldn't have to continue having it inside her if she doesn't want to. However if the man doesn't want her to, but she wants to anyway, then her wishes should be respected. However, he should have the right to have his name not appear on the birth certificate but if he chooses not to have his name on the certificate, he should lose all rights to the child. Blindguy, I wasn't talking about not been able to live a normal life. What I'm saying is that somebody who is so severely disabled that they'll never have the potential to contribute to society should be aborted if doctors are 99% certain that they're so ill/disabled that they'll never be able to contribute to society through been employed. Doctors should judge the potential of the prson nothing else. If someone grows up without the intention of contributing to society, that's a different matter all together and they need to be given no other option after a while other than to contribute to society. Most blind people are capable of getting a job and doing work. This enables them to contribute to society, so they shouldn't be aborted. Same for people in wheelchairs, on crutches, and with hearing difficulties.
What your not seeing is a lot of people think blind people are unable to contribute to society, so, by you saying this I guess the question becomes who determines if someone is unable to contribute to society? Are you right, or is the person who decides no blind person can, or is the person who thinks everyone has something to contribute in their own way? And who is to judge that. As far as the father having a say...I think they should because it takes 2 to tango, and I also think this is part of why so many children are growing up without fathers. I think some men feel that fathers are no longer necessary. After all, she chooses to cary it, in todays world she is able to financially support it, so, why should he even bother to stay around? And if you think children aren't hurt by this attitude I suggest you take a second look around you.
True, witchcraft. Very true.
Ok ww here's a situation. A woman is pregnant with her daughter, and finds out this baby has downs syndrome. Downs can either be very severe, or there is a degree that I have seen where they are almost "normal." I'm sorry I don't eman it like that. A friend has this, she can't cook for herself, has trobule bathing herself, getting dressed. she does go to a worshop where she works for an hour each dday, gets paid about two or three dollars, then the restof the time is just in the room with others with severe challenges. Should she have been aborted knowing that she'd neot contribute to society?
Exactly. I have an uncle with Down syndrome in fact. He can speak and basicly care for himself, but I don't know whether he'd be able to live totally independently, as he can be easily talked into things. But he is very nice and willing to help out with things. You have to explain things to him a little more, but still he has to be one of the nicest and happiest people I know. If he had been aborted, we would've never had the chance to know that. My mom grew up spending time with him, and now he always comes to visit and will bring me snacks for school as he's always concerned that I won't get to eat there. (It's actually cute.) But anyways, my point is that it's not fair to assume that a baby should be aborted just because he won't make a contribution to society. My uncle doesn't have a regular job and probably can't live independently, but I think he still would deserve to live and I personally would have given' him a chance too.
Leilani
Oo! This is a difficult one. If a couple decides they really really don't want a baby and they find they're pregnant, what should hey do? if the child is born and our hypothetica l couple here, put him/her up for addoption, they'll notice they're different from the family they grew up with. They have different genes, different looks and everything and they'll realise their adoptive parents have been telling them lies all their life, saying they're their mum and dad. As for terminating the pregnancy, I suppose in a way, you wouldn't be killing anything as the foetus can't yet breathe. it's just a formless thing floating around in a huge expance of water in this huge bag or sac, and some women'll say well, the sooner you do it, the better, but on the other hand, other people think they're taking a life and they'll just regret it and feel guilty of terminating the pregnancy for a long time after they've done it. I'm not for it or against it though, but I'd just rather it didn't have to happen to anyone and I personally, would never, ever, have an abortion, whatever the circumstances.
Oo! This is a difficult one. If a couple decides they really really don't want a baby and they find they're pregnant, what should hey do? if the child is born and our hypothetica l couple here, put him/her up for addoption, they'll notice they're different from the family they grew up with. They have different genes, different looks and everything and they'll realise their adoptive parents have been telling them lies all their life, saying they're their mum and dad. As for terminating the pregnancy, I suppose in a way, you wouldn't be killing anything as the foetus can't yet breathe. it's just a formless thing floating around in a huge expance of water in this huge bag or sac, and some women'll say well, the sooner you do it, the better, but on the other hand, other people think they're taking a life and they'll just regret it and feel guilty of terminating the pregnancy for a long time after they've done it. I'm not for it or against it though, but I'd just rather it didn't have to happen to anyone and I personally, would never, ever, have an abortion, whatever the circumstances.
I'm not for or against it, but it should be up to the people involved and their situation. I personally don't think I would have an abortion though.
so many people seem to state that they are for or against an issue, then come to find out that when it comes up in life they don't always doo what they said they were for or against because they have to actually bring there life into it. There for I'm honestly going to just say that I'm pro cchoice though, i don't think having the means to abort should mean that you stop using contreception to abort that little problem before it gets any bigger.
I don't agree with it unless of course the mother's or child's life is in real danger, but not just if they find out their child will have a disability or because it was just a ... mistake.
In all reality, I'd say that most babies aren't planned, and are therefore a "mistake."
I am totally for abortion. It should not be a matter decided by the government, but between a woman or couple and her/their doctor.
I would personally never get one myself because I feel that I must deal with the consequences of whatever act I commit and choose to indulge in.
I think it can be justified if the woman was raped. Otherwise, I believe that people are made by God and my parents could have aborted me and I wouldn't have been here. SOme people think they should be able to abort once they find out their child will be born with a defect or disability, but I believe they were born that way for a reason and that would be just awful if people did that for that reason. WHat do you guys think?
So abortion's only right if a woman is raped? Oh, no no no.
Late-term abortion was already thrown out. Abortion should be legal in all states, and people are now becoming more concerned with overpopulation anyway, so if a person wants to subtract one more existence from the planet for whatever reason, let them. jkjk
But seriously, I don't think the government should decide whether you have to have a baby or not. I don't think this is right, and this is one of those choices that actually doesn't harm anyone. But then, you might be one of those people that say, "oh, but that's killing an innocent child!" Well, guess what? So do cigarettes, alcohol, embulical chords, and incapacitive bodies.
So what do you think of that? Do you think cigarettes and alcohol should be prohibited by law? Smoking and heavy drinking are just as intentional as abortion.
If a woman has the right to abort, then why doesn't the people who commit murder have the right to murder?
My sister was so proud when she had an abortion. I couldn't believe it!
i want to share a link here just because someone said it's a blob floating, it will distigwish better when that blob becomes a life form. it goes week by week through the pregnancy and what the stage of development is, for example the heart is beeting after 4 weeks past implantation.
http://www.compasscare.info/index.php?id=16
Other than that. The answer would be prolife for myself, but I can't make anyone else's decission for them. If someone else came asking my advice I would try to steer them toward alternative options, but in the end it's not my place to decide. I just know that a sibling of mine is trying with their spouse
to have a baby and they just suffered a fifth misscarage. It is very likely that there would be a home for that baby somewhere I would only consider abortion as an option if it would be fatle for either the baby or myself if delivery took place. I'd normally not say myself even, but if I was to have another child already I'd not like them to be without a mother.
www.imnotsorry.net
is a breath of fresh air.
This notion that women who abort are doing so because they were careless, and didn't use birth control is unfair, and aggravates me to no end. Surely, this example is true for some, but certainly is not the majority of women who become pregnant. Abortion is expensive, and is not a pleasant procedure, and no woman would want to go through it just for the hell of it. She would undergo it if necessary, but that doesn't mean she'd be happy to have one every other month, or that she thinks of it as an alternative to using birth control. This is simply absurd, and an insult to "business women" you single out as being the main culprits. Other women, nonprofessionals, uneducated women are equally capable of carelessness regarding birth control, too.
Also the idea that adoption is a comparable alternative to abortion, is ridiculous. They are very different things. With pregnancy, you are expecting a person to endure much physical discomfort, even pain, commit to nearly a year of this, and then deal with the possible emotional strain of relinquishing an infant. And people suggest this option as if it were as easy as drinking a glass of water! Abortion isn't fun, but at least the toll it takes isn't long term, and disruptive to a woman's life. It doesn't have to affect those around her, as a pregnancy certainly would.
The world does not need more unwanted children. It wouldn't be fair to the parents, or to child in question to be forced upon a mother or two people who don't want to be parents! Pregnancy should not be thought of as punishment for having had sex.
People are never going to stop having abortions. Unplanned pregnancy is a frightening, despair inducing situation in which to find oneself, and so there will always be women who abort. It is best to ensure that this can be done safely.
It doesn't matter what varying opinions there are; the law gives us abortion as a choice and a right. Thank God.
I believe that the woman should have the choice if she so chooses. I am definitely opposed to late term abortions. If you're that far along, you might as well have the baby already. Adoption should be an option for those whos are unable to care for their child at that time, but I also believe that you have to deal with the consequences that goes along with the new life you created.
to those of you who're against it, what if a woman is raped? do you still think she should have the baby?
My view on abortion is confusing. Hey i;'m allowed to confuse you and myself.
I personally would not have an abortion. Since I had a complete hysterectomy this is an academic discussion.
Even when the "baby store" was open, I'd not have had one. Life is sacred. If I'd been raped, I would have had the child and put it up for adoption.
All this aside, I'm pro choice for early term abortions. I don't think the government, our mama, our preacher, our daddy, our husband, or anyone has any business directing us as to what to do with our bodies. It's our baby and our choice. All those who are most vocal about what we should do are not the ones who actually have to carry the child or not. I think educating ourselves, discussion and compromise are fine, but coercion and legalities are wrong.
I believe that abortion is every woman's right. I also don't consider the fetus, especially in it's early stages, to be a child. When we eat eggs, we don't say we're eating chicken. In any case, I think abortion is the best option when protected sex was used but there was an accident, when the parents are too young to have stability and to have finished high school or it's equivalent, when the woman was raped, when the woman or both parents honestly feel they're not ready for a child and when the child will have severe mental handicaps. The one thing I don't like is partial-birth abortions for no reason. For example, the mother knows she's pregnant and waits months and months making up her mind, or she has to go on holiday and doesn't want to have the child cause it'll ruin her fun etc. If she honestly didnt know she was pregnant (and yes, that can happen) that might be a different story. I also don't agree with abortions being used as birth control. There are many forms of contraception and abortion should never be considered one of them. As for the father, while I do think a woman should have the decency to speak with him about it and take the time to hear him out, it's ultimately not his decision. If there ever comes a time when men can have children that'll be different. Right now,, though, it's the woman who carries the child and therefor, she's the one who decides what happens to her body. That said, if a man is truly willing and able to be a father and the woman doesn't want the child, she really should consider having it and letting him raise it. There aren't that many beautiful dads like that around and another one in the world can't hurt.
Some have stated that people should be held to the consiquence of there actions when they have sex.
I'm sure you wouldn't be saying this if you grew up as or knew people that have grown up as the hated child in there family.
For a child like this, there childhood is often condemned to abuse, neglect, abandonment and many other things no one should have to deal with because that child becomes the focus point of every thing wrong that happend in a parents life, growing up like this takes a huge toal on the childs self asteem, as well as the child in question not knowing how to treet children that they may have or others they meet in life because that's all they knew. then its quite possible a psycle of all these things could take place just because of the parents being forced to take care of a child they never wanted.
Whith this in mind, is it really fare to condemn a child to a broken, loveless home, to the beatings, to the abuse and neglect, if the parents truely don't want the child just so they "suffer the consiquence of there actions"?
Trust me, the child will suffer much more than the parrent.
my previous poste was in response to this quote taken from poste 48 i believe...
"Adoption should be an option for those whos are unable to care for their child at that time, but I also believe that you have
to deal with the consequences that goes along with the new life you created."
Even if you choose to have the child, there's simply no excuse for beating and mistreating him/her. If you can't act like a decent human being, put the child up for adoption. And if you're allowing yourself to stay in such a relationship that's harming not only you but your child, you should really consider where your head's at. Even if you can't do it for yourself, leave for the child's sake or give him/her to a loving home.
I agree.
i'm against abortion for any reason, even rape. The child should not be killed but should be allowed to live. The child should not have to suffer for what the rapest did. That child is inocent, as far as I'm concerned.
If i was raped, and I hope that never happens, I'm still going to have that child regardless because life is precious and it comes from God. Sure the circumstances in which the child was produced were not Godly, but that child, nonetheless, is a life, and a human life is not disposable.
If my child were going to be born disabled or mentally retarded, I will still have it. Why? For the same reasons I listed above. That child is a life and human life is not disposable.
So, in short, abortion is never an option I'd consider, even if the pregnancy would kill me. Then, i'd go ahead and have the baby, and I'd die for my child. That is true parental sacrifice. I could not live with myself ending my child's life, who has never had a chance to come here, smell the fresh air, do big things, and enjoy life, so my selfish self can preserve my health at the expense of a human life and enjoy a few more years on this earth. I have already lived. My child would not have. That is a no brainer for me. Just as I'd sacrifice by standing in front of a bullet to save my child's life, I'd also die during pregnancy or childbirth to save my child's life, so that he could enjoy living.
Men should have the right to decide also whether or not their child lives or dies. Do they not love that child? I know the woman is the one who carries it, but if I'm not mistaken, the men also helped to create it. But it is okay to hit up a man for child support if a woman wants to have it. That is not fair.
I certainly respect your right to have an opinion, but that's one of the most extreme antiabortion things I've ever read. As I said, I don't consider a fetus to be a child. But even if I did, why should the mother have to suffer twice over, first being raped and then having an unwanted child? What kind of life would that child have, being hated cause of it's origins? And what if the woman was extremely young, say 13 or 14 or even younger and never had anything to do with sex, but was just raped by a pervert? Should this child be forced to have a child? As for sacrificing your life for your unborn child, since you'll no longer be living, how can you be sure the child will be well cared for? Again, not trying to disrespect you, just curious.
Well, this is such a contraversal topic, but I'm going to list my view anyway and if you agree, fine, and if not, fine, free speech and all that.
I do agree with abortions. Like is someone is raped and they become pregnant, if the life of the child or the mother is at risk, if the mother is an alcoholic or drug user because that really affects the baby, or if a unthinking teen or someone under the influence of alcohol or drugs or that has a mental condition gets pregnant, then I believe that an abortion is needed. Also for the poeple living off the state government and have kids just because the state will send the mother money for the first few years and they end up with 5, 6, 8 kids. That's not right, especially when you can get free condoms at most clinics now.
There should be no late term abortions. Only during the first trimester and no later. After that, if the kid isn't wanted, put it up for adoption. There are lots of people looking for babies to raise. I just wish some of the older kids would get homes too.
I'm adopted so I can relate and yes, I do know my birth mother and she did the right thing in giving me up for adoption.
Chinchillac
Also adopted here and feel the same way. But since I was born to an ddict, I can totally relate to the idea of abortion in that case. While some may say, rightfully so, that if I was aborted I wouldn't be here (and neither would my twin), we're both lucky. There are plenty of others who had horrible things happen cause of drug or alcohol use. Also, brilliant point about severely mentally retarded or otherwise mentally ill people having babies. That's not right for the mothers or for the children. Pretty much agree on late term too, though there might be a few circumstances where it's okay i.e. the mother's life is in danger or it's a surprise pregnancy of a very young mother. Glad you brought up the condoms.
Hello Geek Woman,
I love your post!
I'm going to preface this by saying that violet blue needs to post more often, and it's a shame there aren't more people like her around these parts (though quite frankly, I can't say I'm surprised.).
In addition to what she wrote, I'd like to ask those of you who think that abortion should only be permitted under certain pre-stipulated circumstances (rape being the most common one), how do you suggest we go about distinguishing between the women who've been raped and the "careless foolish business women" who have not? because all I can imagine is a woman going through the horrific experience of being raped, and then having to prove it to a room full of high-powered white men who ultimately get to decide if she's allowed to make choices concerning her own body.
Also, to those who describe themselves as "pro-life", I'd like to suggest that you call it "anti-choice". Those of us who are pro-choice are not anti-life (we believe life is precious as well), but we are commited to the belief that every woman has the right to make dignified choices. And to the people who suggest that the fathers should have a say in whether or not a woman should go through with an abortion or not: you can hold whatever opinion you wish, but as it is her body, she will have the final decision, regardless of what your wishes are (though it is hoped that a decision can be reached that satisfies both people, of course). It is not ok to decide what will happen to another person's body.
I'm with Skyla. VioletBlue, that post was beautiful. You brought up so many valid points and explained everything clearly. Really hope to hear more from you in general. Geek Woman, you also make a valid point about men and it's one that's not easy to answer. I certainly don't envy any woman who has to make the decision of whether to have the child for her partner's sake or to abort it for her own.
My view on abortion is it's the woman's body so if she decides to kill her child, then that's on her. It's her choice. People shouldn't judge her because she chose to abort her child. It's not like she's hurting anyone else in the world if she does abort that child. But u know what? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
Like has been stated I'm going to state my opinion, and like it or not...First, I grew up a child unwanted; at least by my dad. No, not unwanted because I was unexpected, but instead because I'm blind. My earliest memory is my dad saying to me at about 3/4 "If you weren't blind, I wouldn't have to drink..." Yes it hurts, but a mature adult figures out how to overcome. I'm not by any means saying that we should subject any child to being hated/unwanted ETC, but instead that any childhood can be overcome. Now, to abortion, I, will, never, abort!!! I don't care if I were to get pregnant through rape or not, and yes I've been raped so I know all to well the trama that comes with it. I won't abort because I could never hold a new life responsible for its sperm donors choices. I do not believe "The sin of the father...". While I will not abort I also recognize the fact that not everyone in the world will ever agree with me; (probably not even half will), so, I try not to judge another because she is the one who has to live with her decisions. My problems with aborting are as follows. As has been stated because the father does not have to agree to an abortion or birth he never has the right to know and love his child if she chooses to kill it; (though I think that a rapest gives up the right to know his child even if it's born), nor does he have the choice in supporting it should she choose to birth it. What in this world gives any woman the soul right in deciding what any man is going to do? All of us are people, and if you support the woman's right to choose than you should support his right to refuse support. True, if he is in the child's life he should take responsibility, but if he doesn't want the child why should he be made to support it when she alone made the decision to bare the child? Next, yes, the woman has to bare a child and go through all the discomforts, but that child is still part of its father no matter if it grows within her body. It took his sperm to help her create it, so, in my opinion the father should at the very least be consulted as to his child's future. Now, if you don't see a fetus in the first trimester as a life let me ask a question. Are any of you aware if a woman is beat and loses a child the person doing the beating has committed murder? Or, if there is a car wreck and a woman miscarries the person at fault for the wreck has committed murder? Both of these are true to the best of my current knowledge as long as the woman has decided to have the baby. However, if "she" chooses to kill it she is living within her rights? Does the law make any sinse? Either it is not a life in the first trimester; IE she has the right to kill it, if she's beatin it was not murder, ETC, or it is a life and any woman commits murder if she chooses to abort. Now having said all of this let me throw a twist into the pile of my thoughts. I may not agree with a woman having an abortion if she were willing to laydown and make the child, but I do respect a woman's right to abort if she were raped or her life was in danger. These are choices only she can make. However, if she is willing to laydown she needs to be at least responsible enough to carry it to full term and give it to a loving family. In my opinion this is part of the problem with today's society; we don't make our children responsible for their actions. We make laws to allow them to escape the consequences of their actions. Yes, adoption is an emotional strain on the mother, however, it might promote responsible sex (or none) in the future. True, I personally have never been faced with this issue. To the contrary I want a baby badly and my husband and I are having trouble conceiving. Adoption is an expensive alternative, and do to this we may never have a baby to love and raise. That aside, to sum it up I'm prolife, and yes I say prolife because I refuse to to allow women (my own gender) to take the right of choice away from men on the grounds that it is her body. I don't support either having the choice more than the other. What I support is a new life's right to have a chance at life. Now, before I sign off I want to say one thing more. In my opinion good parents can't be determined by age, but instead by maturity. The numbers of children being abused to day by "adult" parents is a sign of the number of children we have out there having children. On the other hand one 15 year old showed me years ago what maturity was. She was raped by her own uncle, got pregnant with twins, and chose above her family's protestations to birth and raise the twin boys that came from the rape. She loved them, and took care of them. She said to me "They made the whole horrible time worth it." She is the image in my mind that I compare every mother and child relationship I come across to. She was 13 when her sons were born, and she went on to have a full life, and still does last I heard. Oh, and I still stand by my posts above (I was under Witchcraft before).
Tiffanitsa, the same questions could be asked if I stood in front of a bullet for my child. I'd not step aside to allow my child to get shot just because I feared he would not get good care if i was gone. I'd sacrifice my life for him. So, ot me, it is a no brainer. If I was going to die if i brought my child to term, i will. That is a sacrifice i'm willing to make. I will not kill my baby so I can live. I'd end up possibly taking my own life if I did something like that because i could not live with myself. Then, I'd have sinned twice--murdering my baby and myself. Because I could never take my own life, as Jesus death is precious to me, I'd not kill my baby either. So, I'll never cross that bridge.
Skyla, women abuse their choices I feel quite frankly. I do believe that women should be treated equal and with respect and like a human and not a dog, but it seems that women have all the rights and that men are dogs! It makes me very angry. No wonder there are so many deadbeat fathers because the system puts women above men, and the men feel useless and unneeded. I would not put forth any effort either if I felt that i was useless scum, as many men are treated like today. Quite frankly, I advocate for father's rights quite staunchly, and I've helped men gain full custody of their children because the women had no right and were just taking advantage of the system and being jerks, and these fathers wanted to be a part of these children's lives. But, because the women knew they had the upper hand, and because the women knew they could cry and get their way because they are women, the men lost. These women taunted these fathers by hiding the children and playing games. It hurt these fathers beyond belief. They were very emotionally involved. Just because they are men does not mean they do not care.
I got in contact with them and put them in touch with some awesome lawyers, and guess what, those women got what came to them and what they deserved. I laughed, too.
Is not a father important? Does not a father have a right too, since he gave that woman the sperm. That baby has his genetic material. Just because it is her body does not mean that she is God and can make all of the choices for that baby, whether that baby lives or dies, whether that father can be a father or not. We are just women, human mortal flesh! We are not God! The man has equal say, as he is the father of that child. Who is to say that the man may not look forward to having that child and will be devoted to raising it if the woman does not want it. Who is to say that he cannot be severely emotionally hurt by her decisions. It is human nature that a father would feel this way. Whether you believe that God or evolution did it, fathers are biologically programmed from the start to love and care for their children. When they are denied that, it is tragic.
I have many friends who have single fathers because the women would rather have multiple sex partners without a care in the world, and let me tell you, those fathers are caring, loving, and devoted. It's so funny how a woman can nail a man for child support and suppress his rights, but the man has no rights to that child at all because she is a woman? Nonsense! It takes two to tango, and guess what, it takes two to make the choice. And as far as I'm concerned, choosing whether another human being lives or dies is not one I'm willing to make. I know that i'm just a woman, dust that will return to the ground in a few short years, and have no right to make such a lofty decision.
End of rant!
I do love your views Reina. I am in agreement with you as far as I am concerned. Now, as faras other women go, it's their choice. I will not judge or condemn a woman for her past. That's not my job, it's God's, and Thank Heaven for that! Lol. My son and soon-to-be daughter are precious to me. My son was conceived while I was on the Pill and at first it was hard for me to get over the shock and fear and maybe some disappointment in myself that I had when I found out I was pregnant with him. He's my joy, my light; he's everything I've ever wanted in a child and then some. I couldn't imagine my life without him, even though a counselor I had suggested I give him up or get an abortion. Oh how'd I'd like to snap her neck for that! My daughter was planned and yes, they're less than two years apart. We're nuts, I know, but just because we're on SSI, and Welfare, transporting two little kids is hard and we do find ourselves more dependent on others, we do not regret our decisionand areonly doing the very best for our babies.
Yes, I do consider that law ridiculous. Just as abortion isn't murder, neither should it be murder if there's an accident and a woman has a misscarriage. However, there should be some kind of charge made if a person purposefully tries to kill the fetus knowing that the woman intends on carrying it. As for taking a bullet for your child, that child is already born and I can understand that. It's a mother's love. Thankfully, I've never had to make the choice of my life versus an unborn child's. Anything could happen. But as it stands now, I would choose my own life, in the hopes that I could become pregnant again, bare this new child and raise him/her. As you probably know, I'm not christian, so have no connections with Jesus, sins etc. That said, you've just raised some interesting questions about how Artemis, who's the Goddess of Childbirth and youths among other things, would view the issue. This is something I'll bring to those more familiar with her. As for women being able to get away with things and hurt men, I don't agree with that either. I think both should have equal rights and just because the woman is the mother of the child doesn't mean she's automatically the more fit parent. Yes, she bore it, but as you said, some just don't care and some aren't capable. Another extremely sad thing is battered or raped men. I read of one who went to a women's shelter cause there wasn't one for men near him and they turned him down. Men often feel that if they report abuse, rape etc, they'll either get in trouble or laughed at by their friends. No one should have to go through that and it angers me that they do.
Hi cattleya,
Your post was wonderful! I agree with you all the way.
I am also prolife and I am going to stay that way.
Thank you again for the wonderful post.
I agree about societies treatment of men who have been raped/battered. I've some personal experience with such a situation because my sister-in-law abuses my brother and gets away with it. How she can abuse him is simple, if he raises his hand to defend himself the law finds him guilty of abuse, but if she raises her hand to him they laugh and dismiss the charges. Why he tollerates it is simple too. He has custody to their oldest, but not to their youngest. The boy was born after they'd divorced, and if they split the courts are likely to give her custody even though she's lost custody of her oldest two girls (one of them being my brothers). Also, I'm not christian either. I don't believe in God, Christ, ETC, but I'm still prolife. I think a large misconception is that anyone who is prolife is also religious, and that isn't true in my case. Thank you for the compliments above. I'm surprised it was easily understandable as I was upset when I wrote. LOL, this is a topic that no matter your view point it upsets most respondents.
I'm truly sorry to hear about your brother and can only hope that things will improve for him in the future. Also, that story about your father was horrible. You just don't say those things, especially not to a little child. However, it sounds like you were an excuse for him to drink not the reason for it. A true loving parent, however upset he/she would be at his/her child's blindness, would support their child not hit the bottle and then blame their own short-comings on an innocent baby who has no clue what's going on. Also, the religious comment was to Geek Woman, to explain my views a little further. Of course not all pro-lifers are religious just as not all pro-choicers are atheists etc. I consider myself to be very religious in my own right.
Oh, I know that you weren't saying all prolifers are religious; simply making a statement to make sure there are no doubts in anyone's mind. I too hope my brother can get this dealt with; one way or another; anything but the unhappiness that seems to be a constant in their household. As far as my father, I have no emotion left for him. I agree, he had no right, and yes, it was just one of his many excuses I've heard since that day.
Cattleya, your brother's situation is a perfect example as to how women are creatures that are exulted like gods. they can be crackheads, abusive, drunkards, or just stupid and clueless, and they get the child because they are a what? A woman. Then, the child has a hefty price to pay as an adult when he pays for the high bills for all of his psychiatric treatment that he needs to rehabilitate from his childhood. Even then, the scars remain.
Judges need not look at the gender to make their decision, as it seems they often do. They need to look at who is fit or not. Who will provide the best home for the child.
Cattleya, I can send you some information on father's rights, so your brother can have custody ripped away from that scum and go on with his life. Nobody, no matter the gender, needs to tollerate abuse! Nobody! He also needs to find a good lawyer, as well as try to use the fact that she lost custody of her other children as a basis to prove her unfit. Any judge who does not pay attention to that is stupid and does not deserve his position. Common sense would say that if she lost custody of two children already, she is unfit. What more does one need to prove the case?
In the US it's called innocent until proven guilty. She lost custody of the girls do to drug abuse, and now she claims she is strait and has learned her lesson. I'm not saying she isn't strait; she may be, but I simply don't approve of her as a mother or GF of my brother. LOL, I think we've strayed mightily from the original topic. However, I would appreciate the information. Thank you for being willing to send it. :) On the other end of things I have a reverse situation going on. I use to know two people who are now fighting over their little boy. I personally believe she is the more fit parent, and it seems that the state her soon to be ex-husband is living in disagrees; despite the boy's wishes. I personally think a great deal of this issue is do to two bordering states, and the state their divorce was filed in is siding with him do soully to the fact he lives there and she lives in the neighboring state. I would appreciate any info going either way. LOL, if that doesn't make sense ask and I'll explain better. However since both problems are off topic if someone wishes to contact me privately, feel free. :)
Cattleya, do you go on MSN? We could talk privately there. I will try to do what I can to help.
I respect everyone's opinions, but I'm definitely pro-choice. no one should be able to tell me what I can and can't do with my body, that's all there is to it. having gone through what I have, if I ended up being pregnant, I'd have an abortion. I wouldn't want the father of my unborn child to have rights, cuz it wasn't consensual by any means.
I am not for it personally, because I think that an unborn child is living too. But everyone has to decide on his own. But I think the parents should decide about that together.
I also agree that both parents should have a say. If both parents agreed to the deed, if you know what I mean, and the woman got pregnant, then the father should at least have a say. It may not have as much weight considering that the woman is the child barer, but, after all, it is the father's child as well. I also think, however, that it really depends how the woman got pregnant. If she was being foolish and irresponsible, then she should probably have the child and try to give it up for adoption. maybe it will teach her to be a little more careful in the future. However, if she took all reasonable steps not to get pregnant, or if it was a situation beyond her control, such as rape, then by all means she should be able to abort.
Why should a woman be able to choose to murder her unborn child? Its bad enough that women can decide this, but now there are people demanding that men also play Hitler with the lives of unborn babies. What have these poor unborn babies done to deserve to be killed? Why should they be murdered by their own parents, when they can't even defend themselves?
Some people even believe that babies should be murdered if their fathers are rapists. Why? The baby didn't choose to be created that way. It's not the baby's fault that its mum was raped. Why should the baby be sentenced to death for a crim that it didn't and couldn't commit? The parents and siblings of rapists are never sentenced to death because of the actions of the rapists so why should unborn babies be any different?
Dehumanising unborn children to justify what could be described as an on-going global holocaust against unborn children is sick and evil. Parents can't dehumanise their badly-behaved thirteen-year-olds to justify murdering them because they don't want to put up with their bad behaviour any more, yet they can dehumanise unborn children who have done no wrong nor harm, and others will help them with their murderous acts.
To post 80: I didn't want to say that the father should decide to kill the unborn baby. I only wanted to say that not only the women should decide about this. If a woman thinks about the abort, the father should be able to say anything about that too because he is the father of the unborn child.
one of my good friends was a rape baby, and her mom tells her she's the best thing that's ever happen to her. so if I was raped even, I'd still have the baby. it's not the baby's fault, and i saw a video in science where they littaly suck the baby out and the fetus looked like it was screaming and that just stuck with me. god.
My biology teacher once said that your opinion on abortion has no weight until you've been there. On one hand, I don't agree, because whether you're there or not, abortion is, with no question, the killing of an unborn fetus. However, on the other hand, it is difficult to choose. I have heard of women and men who have gone on and on about how they are completely against abortion until they find out they have a baby on the way, and then they suddenly change their mind. Also, does a fetus have feelings? Well, I guess that depends how far along the pregnancy is. Here is my straight up, direct opinion:
Whether you are pregnant by choice, or whether it was out of your control, I believe that it is absolutely wrong, with no question, to abort after the first trimester. After this period, the fetus starts to develop human features, has a beating heart, and, although it is debatable, probably has real feelings. If you haven't acted on your decision to abort within the first three months, then you're too late, in my opinion. There is no question that the fetus is living before three months. It grows, and is made of living cells. However, it really doesn't resemble a human at that point. Yes, it is inhumane to kill another living creature. However, would you call it a pleasant thing if the baby, for example, was born with FAS, or an addiction because the birthmother is also addicted? Would you call it pleasant if the child finds out later in life that he or she was born into a family that didn't want a child? What kind of psychological effect will that have on a child?
For anyone who didn't quite get that, FAS stands for fetal alcohol syndrome.